This week we talk with Podcast Host, April Grant. She had to decide if love was enough to stay or to leave to find the intimacy that she lacked in her marriage. This is an incredibly honest and raw discussion of how April and her husband chose to find love again and stay in their relationship. Join us.
Recorded January 23 , 2021
Topic:
How to love when you feel like leaving
Guest notes:
April Grant is the founder of The Other Side of 40 Blog and Podcast where she encourages us to embrace each new chapter and release anxieties around getting older.
Pre-topic Banter:
Happy Birthday Rhumel! She is an inauguration baby. Speaking of the inauguration, we all found ourselves feeling lighter and happier on that day. Nobody missed the beautiful gem-toned monochromatic wardrobe of the ladies highlighted on this day. Furthermore we had a great laugh at the Bernie memes.
We talked about it:
Every marriage will come to a point (or points) where it gets hard, like really hard. Challenges are to be expected. Actually, you should plan on it.
Hearing stories of how other married couples found themselves at a breaking point, then overcame is invaluable! Enter April Grant.
During this conversation, April walks us through "the wake up call that we needed", the event that exposed the vulnerabilities in her marriage and then she describes how they worked together to fortify their relationship.
Episode Quotes:
"[Compliments by male friend] made me feel a way I hadn't felt in my marriage in a long time... I don't know if I'd want to go through the next 40 years of my life NOT feeling attractive and wanted." - April
"[Male friend] makes me feel good. He makes me feel loved and he makes me feel like there is someone looking at me, not as a wife and mother, but just April." - April
"He's [Husband] paying the bills and giving me space, but I don't have the passion and affection that I really want" - April
"If things don't change around here I will leave!" - April
"Prostitutes wouldn't be making good money if it was about intimacy and passion. You can have sex without either of those. ....guys mistakenly think well we are having sex so of course we are intimate." - Rhumel
" I think every marriage goes through the need to reinvent itself and to rejuvenate the feelings of flirty-ness inside the marriage." - Twanda
"It's universal that long term couples a five year period where we struggle, this is our 5-year period. If we can work through this, I know we'll be better for it on the other end." - April's husband
Mentions:
Guest
Related:
Love challenges you may want to try (in marriage)
https://www.thedatingdivas.com/marriage-love-challenges/
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Welcome back to our
Welcome back everybody. This is Twanda
And this
Is Rhumel.
Now
I think the events of this past week has just gotten me riding kind of high. Oh
my goodness. I was so happy and Wednesday, uh, Wednesday was my birthday. So
I got the best present of, you know, the last four years getting a new administration, one that can, you know, TA, you know, what do they say, Pat, your head and rub your stomach at the same time. I mean, they able to function at different levels, so that was a wonderful thing, but okay. I'm usually not into fashion.
But who is not talking
about
Mrs. Obama,
Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, because we are close friends. And when I say,
or years now,
she doesn't know. She doesn't know yet. I know I have those
beautiful, beautiful. And in all that, that her, her burgandy, And and I was like, those ladies did something I noticed. The ladies, Hey, for solid colors, all the way down to their gloves with matching mask. And I was like, I aspire to be like him one day.
I mean,
bad-ass right. Bad-ass I was just like, Oh my goodness. And every time I go to my timeline, whether it be Instagram or Facebook, It seems like there's somebody who's just like, love this, love, this love this. Cause you cannot deny that outfit. Her look the way she walked down, those stairs, undeniable
like royalty.
I was like this royalty. Yes. So I was very happy. President Barack Obama didn't look too bad. I don't know, but who was looking
at it? And at that point, nobody was looking at him. I'm
sorry. I, I like, I liked
president Obama, but I love it, but yeah.
Yeah, it was the lady show. So it was funny. I saw a meme that had.
George Bush in it. And he was looking at Michelle and Barack Obama and, and I can call them that because they're close friends, close friends, and they walking in and, and Bush said, Oh, there's my girlfriend with her clingy husband.
And I thought that was appropriate you know, we're talking about marriage today and the people been married a long time and I listened to Michelle Obama's book. We also listened to Barack Obama as well, but Michelle Obama's book, but she talked to us about their marriage. That was fascinating because I'm nosy.
There's that also, just to hear a little bit about that story, we only see online the best of them, you know, they're not like some period polished when he goes to hold her hand, she taps it away. Like we don't see it. We never saw anything like that. Oh. And she never saw anything like that with the Obamas.
And so to know that they are real couple that have real couple experiences. Good. Like it was a, it was, it was nice to see because I've been married awhile. You've been married awhile, our friend today who I'll introduce in just a moment, if married a while and we know marriage is a challenge, right?
Marriage can be a challenging, it has lots of benefits. It can be challenging. So I'm going to use this as my entree to introduce our girlfriend today. Joining us, I'll be telling you about April Grant. Now April Grant is the founder of the other side of 40 blog and podcasts where she encourages us to embrace each new chapter and release anxieties around getting older and when to stop right there, because I thought I had released anxieties about getting older and then more older stuff happened to me.
And then the anxiety come up again. Yeah. That thing. Anyway, she is. Um, and then experienced entrepreneur with a passion for helping women. She inspires women over 40 to use all of them, learned lessons to live their best lives and manifest dreams. So I'm sure you can all see why we had to have April episode on our podcast, because that's just all about what we are about.
So thank you for joining us April, April.
It's great to be here. I'm excited to have banter. I was like, I want him to get him out of that banter about Michelle, open that up for you right now.
Did you have any comments about the outfit?
Well, actually had something to say about, uh, George Bush, George w I saw a meme that said, may your husband looked like, treat you like, or look at you?
Like George looks at Michelle and you bunch of pictures of him holding her hand, looking her in the eye. Like if this man doesn't look at me, like George Bush looked at Michelle, I don't want them
like, throw him back, go back to his mama, mama.
So, and those monochromatic looks, they had, um, there's actually like an infinity stone. There's actually seven women. They pulled because it was also a, well, I S they miss J lo I don't know why Jayla wasn't in there, but they did throw in, they did throw in Gaga, but I believe. George bushes, Y somebody else, there were other women that had the monochromatic looks and they're like, Oh, they called out.
They pulled out the infinity stones. Oh wow. .
Yeah, I got it. I got it. Yeah. That is true. Like J-Lo
she had on all white, all white. Yeah. Yeah. It was a beautiful, beautiful meme.
I was like just beautiful women looking great dressing, you know, appropriately and people looking like they like each other.
Yeah. I'm so happy. Well, you know, I'm so happy to be here.
Yeah. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be around you, you know, just, yes,
I know. I know.
You know, thinking about how four years ago, and that was happening. We were all like very difficult was this was, this was great. And yeah, it
wasn't, it was a very different, yeah, it was just not a good, not a good day.
Four years ago.
It was just a nice feel to, you know, what it was for me. It was just a nice, it was nice to smile again. Yeah, it was nice to just smile and even laughing at this laughing at the Bernie means you had to see the Bernie means and just laugh and joke without someone feeling attacked. Right.
Cause we're joking about George w but we don't really think he likes her. I mean, I'm sure, but like her legs are well. Yeah. You know, and it take him, take her from, you know, and we're just having fun and just. Being able to like laugh again and about politics is politics is already so serious. Anyway. Yeah.
Well, I enjoyed talking about what we talked about, what politics. Yes. Now that's how I want to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanted to go ahead and move us to how we got here to meeting you April and bringing you on to the show. Now this was is the best person for getting people to the show. So where stumbled across April, do you want to tell a little bit about that story?
You know what? I don't remember how I just, I get these moments where I see people and I connect with them instantly. And I go,
I got to
contact her, but I honestly don't remember how I got to that place.
I dunno, you dropped into my DMS, you slid in my dams and asked me if I wanted to be. And I think we were talking about collaboration and I was like, sure.
And then you went on my calendar and it was like six months later and it wasn't that long, but it was a while. So I had forgotten I'm like, why are we talking again? I don't even know.
I don't remember that part of the conversation, but just the fact that your podcast. Title is the other side 40 and you're focusing on women.
It was like, yes, that's who we are. That's what we do. If some of our listeners were what would come to your podcast. And I hope that they do, we think they'll have something, you have something good for them. What can you tell us that they would hear when they were listening?
No, when I go and listen to your podcasts, fabulous stories of women accomplishing great things.
After the age of 40, I just got finished interviewing a woman who for the first time thought about herself at the age of 39. I have someone, I interviewed someone who found love for the first time after the age of 50. I, I mean, it's just amazing what people women do, because I believe that a lot of us live for other people early in our life.
You know, our parents. Tell us what we're supposed to do. Society tells us what we're supposed to do. And because we are very nurturing and very mothering, and we have that innate ability to connect, we want to, we want to make them happy. So we do things for them. And then you realize one day that. I haven't really been living for myself.
I've been living for someone else and I need to take on my life and do what I want to do. But the problem is we've lived a whole life before that. We've, we've had so many experiences up until that point and now we're supposed to be going out into the world and the world doesn't want, really want us to change very much.
They're like, no, you happy being a wife and a mom, right? Right. You just have to be doing that. And I don't believe, I mean, I believe there are some people who are super happy in you in that, and that's fine, but there's also a segment of women who are wanting to explore more and want to have the peace of mind to explore that without judgment.
Right. And figure out, and they may try and fail and they may have 15 businesses between the ages of 35 and 50, but that's okay because we didn't get the opportunity to do that at, at 18. Right. So we didn't get the chance to try and fail over and over again, because we were working, we were grinding, we were going to school, we were having children.
We were taking care of our parents. Um, we were taking care of our siblings and you know, all of a sudden it's like, Oh, you gotta do you do something for you. And I don't know what it is. Hadn't never even thought about it. So have either one of you guys had
anything like that? Yeah, I think like, I think.
That moment that made me go, like, what am I doing here was someone asked me, what do you like to do? And I was like, Hmm. Well, dang. I don't know. Like I chase after my kids. I do this, I do that. But those aren't things that, I mean, I love my kids. I love my husband, you know, taking care of them and being a part of their lives is what I want.
But in terms of what I wanted to do, I was like, well, dang, I don't know. And so from that point on, it was like,
Hey, maybe
there's something more to life than just my family. And so that was my moment of, you know, saying like, I need to figure this whole thing and it didn't happen until I was at least 40.
Yeah, it didn't happen until
then. That is so funny your mouth. Sometimes I think we're the same people. And sometimes we, in this case, I swear you took my answer because somebody did ask me, what do I like to do for fun? And when I realized, I didn't know, I couldn't fill up the answer. I realized I was in trouble and I made some changes.
I will say one thing happened at 35, which started the role to be different after 40, at 35, for whatever reason, I desperately wanted a tattoo. I'd never wanted a tattoo. Anytime in my life desperately wanted a tattoo, which I thought was weird for me. And I think I settled for another, several piercings in my ear.
Um, and instead, but. By the time I hit 40, I had this feeling and it was natural. I swear, I, I woke up like this and I'm 40. It was like, I'm going to tell people more of what I'm going to say. More of what I actually think I'm going to, uh, I lost inhibitions. So I don't mind telling people more of what I think not being mean, but being true to myself for once.
And, um, having that, uh, desire to be me and discover what me is because I do have, we have three kids, my youngest about to turn 18, you know, so I'm, I'm ready for the other side of that.
Yeah. And that's, I think that is a more common story than we ever discuss that we're in the weed, especially once you have kids, because you are their world, you really are their world.
And you forget that there's a whole, you that are that's there. Be outside of their world and you don't explore it. And I had a very, that's not what caused my moment, but that was very much, especially when it came around the self care. They're like, what do you like to do for self care? And I'm like, yeah, I know.
Not watch them. Like, that's a good one. Lay down and actually watch a show from beginning to end, without someone calling my name like that possible. That's good though.
That's a good one. That was
what self care was. So, um, I mean, I'm growing, I'm still learning what that is for me, but you know, everyone's like take a bath, do all this.
I'm like, I don't even need all that. I just, I just need to breathe. Like, no, that's not thinking about
somebody else. That's real. Yeah. So,
yeah. So you mentioned, cause I know your podcast, you asking other women about that more, that moment in their lives, but in our first get to know each other conversation, you started into a story that I said, Oh, this is, this is podcast worthy.
I want to, I want to put this, I want to hear this in an episode, uh, you were talking about your own moment, your own turning point in your life. 40, uh, that it, it started. I think you can correct me later. It started with changing the way you behaved within your own family. And. Yeah, it came, it went to that.
Uh, but no, it didn't start there. It actually started with, uh, me waking up. Well, it actually started with an old friend reaching out to me, an old guy friend, reaching out to me and you're married. So we didn't set them here. You're married. You have how many? Oh, yes, I'm married. Um, I have three living children and one in heaven.
My eldest child is about to turn 17 in a couple of weeks and my youngest is seven years old. And how long have you been married? We got married, actually this upcoming Wednesday, it will be 14 years.
Congratulations, honey. 14 years of marriage.
Yep. And we've been together. My eldest child is our oldest child.
So we've been together 18 years. I don't, I'm not a date person really. So I don't know whenever we started talking.
Well, it just helped us to figure out how long you've been in this room, the relationship. So I want you to throw that in. As you're talking about what you're experiencing.
Of course. Um, yeah, so an old friend reached out to me and it was, it started out very innocently, like just, you know, you, you find Facebook friends or LinkedIn friends and someone had taken, he took a nice picture and I was like, Oh, looking good.
You know, nothing. I'm not thinking much of it. And he's like, Hey, haven't heard from you in a long time, how you doing dah, dah, dah. And we just went back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And then, you know, every once in a while he'd throw in, like, you know, you're looking really nice today, or I really like this new picture you put posted and stuff.
And it just made me feel a way that I hadn't felt in my marriage in a long, long time. And I didn't, I didn't. No, what to do really? Because on one hand, I'm not even sure I ever really had that relationship with my husband. Um, I think he's very nice and I think he loves me and I think he does. He he's great for me and with me, but he's not a flirtatious guy.
Hold on. I wanted to make, I want to clarify. So yeah. What's going on here, your husband didn't necessarily throw out comp compliments like that. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah. Not, not quite like that. Um, It would be like, if I got dressed up and ready to go out on a date, yes. He would compliment me. But if on the daily basis, when you're you have kids that doesn't happen very often.
Right. You got the kids ready on time. That's your compliment, right?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, you made dinner tonight. Great. And I'm just like, Oh, okay. Thank you. Um, Yeah. And don't get me wrong. It's hard because, you know, sexually, we were still very active. Um, but it was just not having that kind of like flirtatious that young flirtation that, you know yeah.
Cause our relationships change over time.
Exactly. Might have been the start of it. You know, started with some of that, but alpha times I do, I need to do that. I mean, we're married, you know, I'm going to be here for you, you know that, right? Exactly. Exactly. Do you ever get a guy flirting with you in your DMS?
Tell the truth? Um,
no, not flirting in my, but I mean like I, but I have, um, I dunno, I have guy friends, you know, I have guy friends
cause your guy friends now all nice and platonic. And we already had that episode, men and women be friends. I'm talking about flirting. I remember early in my marriage. I think my husband started getting DMS early in my marriage.
We didn't have DNS. I've been married about 25 years. That was before, um, uh, that type of thing. But he started getting attention from an ex, um, and chime in and just sending an email. So that's what we do, email stuff like that. So we. Found out why that was a problem and boost your ego. That's what we did a lot of reading after that and found out about how compliments boost your ego.
And if you're not feeling good about yourself, or if your spouse isn't doing a lot of that. That those things can make you feel good and you can long for those things. So, yeah, we've
been
very curious after that. We've been more careful. So whenever I get some random guy from my past, like high school or something, and they're like, Hey, I'm like, don't even come there.
I mean, If you don't say, Hey, I see you work here, or I say, your kid is doing this. This is great. You know, if it's nothing that I can clearly say, Oh, you're just having conversation. As soon as it's I think your eyes are beautiful. Your hair is so great. It's like, I don't have time for that. I just put that off.
But that's the thing. It didn't start that way. It didn't start it didn't and I don't typically entertain that. It didn't start like, Oh, he was trying to flirt on me and hit, hit on me. It didn't start that way. That was like three, four weeks into the conversation. And then it started, you know, well, you know, you're pretty, you know, stuff like that.
So it, it, it. I guess we redeveloped a friendship first, then that sort of happening anyway. But like you said, you know, you felt good. And so really, I think part of me just thought. You're married and you just don't. I don't know. You don't feel it anymore. I don't know. I don't know exactly. I don't know if you shouldn't expect it anymore, but then again, I was coming up on my 40th birthday and I looked around and said, I don't know if I want to go through the next 40 years of my life.
Not feeling this, like, not feeling hot or not feeling attractive and not feeling wanted.
Um, I mean, you are having sex all the time. Sorry. That's what you said for like that, right? But you didn't feel like your husband wanted you sexually?
I felt like it was very, I won't say clinical, cause it wasn't, it was decent.
It was good. There were times that it was good. Sometimes it was okay. Yeah. Um, but I felt it was just more clinical than. Emotional intimate, right?
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I can definitely relate to that. So do you think he was feeling that towards you too?
Um, I after therapy, cause we started therapy after that, uh, we determined that he just, he didn't know what to expect.
And so he was just okay with how it was. His goal was we got married and we were going to live it out. And so if this is how it was going to be, then this is just but worse for happy, uh, for sad, for our exciting, I am, he is for it, whatever. Yeah, there he is.
Yeah. Go ahead. I'm curious. What, what are your experiences with marriage like, um, were your parents married?
Were his parents married? You know, were what kind of, um, I don't, I would almost say relationship examples. Did you guys have that you were pulling from,
from my side? Um, my mother, by the time we met, my mother was on her third husband. Okay. Um, she married my husband, my father, and had divorced him when I was young, so I never knew them together.
And then when I was young, she got married to my step-father, who she divorced when I was in college. So she was with him for 14 years or so. So it was a pretty long relationship. Right. And then, um, around the time that Jeff and I got together, she had gotten remarried to someone else. But outside of that, I had one aunt on my mother's side, married and everyone else was a single mother.
Gotcha. And then on, Oh, and then I had an uncle, my stepdad's, uh, brother was married in a long-term relationship. So they were married there. They're still married. And so, I mean, we're talking 40, 45 years. There've been hurting, not happily. But married but married. Okay. My dad, on my husband's side, his parents have been married forever.
They are on their 45th wedding anniversary, give or take. And most of his uncles, which for the most part is what he he's close to. They all had pretty much one marriage. Uh, one uncle has two, all the rest have been had one marriage and stayed. So it
sounds like maybe your husband was just, it, does it sound correct to say that like with his examples of like my people, we get married and we stayed married and we just kind of ride the wave and you know, off we go, do you think that kind of played into
it very much so.
And his, his parents are very Christian and so they don't really show a lot of intimacy in front of him. So he never really saw them being like, they don't really kiss or hug or hold hands. Um, his, but don't get me wrong. Like his dad is super different. They're very loving, but they're not, they don't show act.
There's no PDA. There's no public displays of affection. Yeah. So mom makes a plate for every meal. You know, dad opens all the doors, but you don't really see, you know, them like making out or hugging or just hanging out like on each other or any of those things. So he never saw that. And didn't really know that was a piece of the puzzle.
How did
you get him to actually make the move to go
into therapy? I mean, I know it's asked that.
How did you get your man to therapy that, you know, just give us like the five steps. So what do you do.
Well, I wouldn't recommend any of the steps that I had to take. Um, part of those steps include the other person.
Um, not because I was, uh, leaving him for him, but that was part of it, my feelings and my emotions. And then the second thing was. If things don't change around here, I will leave. And it wasn't particularly for the other person, but it was just, I need more, I am 40. My expected age of living is 80 and there's just no way I can do this for the next 40 years.
Um, and we got two options. We can just live as roommates and which we do well. We do great. Like we co-parent wonderfully, we run our house wonderfully. We do all that stuff. Or we can actually work on our relationship and, you know, improve. And so one of the first things I wanted to do for both of us was we actually went to therapy separately and that was a requirement, um, to go, yeah, so I wanted to go, you know, I wanted to make sure that I was, my ultimate goal was to stay married.
I wanted to make sure that that's where my heart was and I wasn't going to do it because. He wanted to make it work. So I needed to know that that was what I wanted to do. And then for him, I think he, I felt he needed to break down those intimacy barriers, like tie into like what's going on. Why, why?
Cause I've asked him the, these aren't new arguments. That's the problem. None of these issues that we're having, we're like just popped up. I just. I guess I was just too tired to fight it. And I was just like, things are working. It's not bad. Like lots of people have it worse. Like he's not abusive. He's not me.
He's a nice guy. And I just put up with it for the most part, uh, the easiest way to say it. And I just wanted to make sure that we were both in it for the right reasons. And I wanted to make sure that he wanted to be here for me as well. And not just because I'm the mother of his children. Um, because he's a faithful guy, you know, I'm wanting to know that I wanted to know that he wanted to do it.
And then once he, we were both secure in that, then we started couples counseling together.
Gotcha. I wanted to know. Cause you know, do you, would you say now having gone and getting that counseling, would you say that was the move you needed? That was good. I guess counseling is a, I feel like sometimes it's a toss up.
Sometimes you get a good one. That's bad. You seem like you found the right person and you did the counseling and lived happily ever after.
No. Um,
I found a therapist that I liked, um, which I'm not sure was the right thing, because she was very just like team April, which was okay. I mean, I guess ultimately it was what I needed at that time. I think I felt I needed someone on my side, but I have a new therapist now, so. That's I had to find someone that I think would push me a little harder and push back on some of my thoughts, a little more and dive more into my background and history.
And she didn't really do any of that. It was more like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds good. You know, a lot, choose a great cheerleader. Um, and which I think I needed at the time. I think I just needed to feel like, I think I needed validation. And she provided that now for him, his experience was amazing.
I was not expecting it to be, I was expecting kind of what you said, Wanda, where, you know, it's a hit or miss and he was going to go and he's going to find someone and then change somebody or come home and say, Oh, that wasn't worth it. He came home.
So excited to go back to the name. And phone number of this one at the end of the episode,
i will get that to you, but he also, what out of the conversations, because I I'm like, why do you feel, it seems like you get so much.
He's like I go in with intentionality, he goes into every session with extreme intentionality. He knows what, what questions he wants to ask. He wants. He knows what perspectives he needs. Um, meaning like on a situation, would he, he started journaling. So he's journaled every day since he started. Um, and actually his journaling was more of the recording of what he did versus what I said I did.
Okay. Okay. I was like,
it was a scorecard
for us.
It was a, it was a scorecard of, you know, April says she does this, but I don't always remember what she says or. Didn't say, and I want to keep track of that and not, not to really, he's not the person to throw it back in my face. It wasn't for that. But it's to work through the feelings with the therapist about what I said and how I reacted when things weren't correct.
So he would say I did X, Y, and Z, but she said she did this. I don't know what to do or how to handle this because she's so sure that she did. That's that's a common complaint that I'm always sure too, that I was right.
Yeah. Let me ask you April. Do you think that it cause in a way, to me, it sounds like your husband may have been ready for therapy at some level, for a while himself and in a way by you. Forcing your hand. It gave him that out to be like, I am going to therapy and I have some things to work on. Does it, did that, was that true for him or not?
I mean, he just seemed to be so gung ho about it. I
honestly think he was just gung ho about not losing me. Um, because I. I had suggested therapy many, many times, and he was adamant against therapy. Every single time I entered, I wanted him to go separately because there were other, I mean, there are other issues.
I mean, we all have issues, right? We all have things from our, our, our past that. We need to talk to someone about an address and kind of get through. And there are some issues, you know, he grew up in The Bahamas with the corporal punishment system that still has lingering impact. Um, one of our major fights was he called me out my name and that is just not within his character.
Um, and the, the word he called me was not within mine. So I,
um,
Um, and, and, and that was several years ago and I was like, you need to go to therapy cause you need to figure out where that's coming from because that's not coming from my attitude. There's a lot of things that I can accept. I can be overbearing. I can be stubborn, stubborn. I can even be mean, but he chose was not that
I'm not that I'm this I'm, this I'm this, but I aint that.
Not that.
Okay. So you said a few years ago, I don't remember. I don't know how old you are. But had you, had you been over that 40? Okay, so this was probably, so I turned, I am 41 now and I'll be 42 in a couple months. Um, My awakening, what I call it? An awakening was around 39. Right, right. Before I turned 40, this happened back when, about 38 years old.
And it was a big fight. I mean, it was our first real fight. We don't really fight. And that's another thing we don't really fight. So it, when he called me on my name, I was like, you need to pack your shit and get out.
And, and was just now getting this part of the story. Cause we didn't hear that before. No, we didn't.
But it was, and there was something we worked. Can we figure, how did you survive that? Well, he, well, one was apology. One was acceptance that he said it and one was acceptance that there was something more to the story. He wasn't willing to deal with it though at that time. He knew that there was something there, but because it wasn't something that was regularly occurring.
It wasn't worth it for me to say, you got to go today. It was just like, dude, I know there's something going on. You got to figure that out.
You sound like a very good wife. She sounded like a good way. She
does. One of the things I admire about you
April is your ability
to communicate. The way you're feeling to your husband, because now all of us do that.
And, um, I think you can't get what you don't ask
for.
Right? Amen.
And I've in that respect, I've always been that way. So I'm with respect to like work. And dating before I got married, I used to ask guys out all the time. I used to ask for whatever job I wanted. I asked for whatever raises. Yeah. I want it because I always have the thought process of what's the worst.
They're going to say no when we're not dating now. Anyway. So if they tell me, no, we still ain't dating. Like, it's the same thing. But if they say yes, we may go out on a date and we may like each other and the same thing with a job or a raise, you know? And it just always put it in PR for me, it just put it in perspective of.
I won't be any worse off if I go and I say it and they don't like it. And so for my marriage, I just I'm very blunt. I, I don't know if it's being a taurus/ Aires, cusp has anything to do with it. Some people believe heavily in astrology. I think there is something to it, but I'm very blunt and very willing to speak my mind.
And for the most part, not afraid of what people will say back, um, because I also choose my words wisely. So like in his re in the response to him, Calling me out my name, I didn't say F -U you M F. Like I didn't go. It was just very like, Oh, that's not who I am. I know who I am. I know in here who I am, so that is not who I am and not, and I'm not going to accept anyone to tell me that that is who I am.
There was, uh, extraordinarily mature because you had to put aside your. Anger that a lot of times, you know, when name calling happens is mainly is going to get you mad and the stoke, the fight, and they immediately, you were like, huh? Do you even know who I am. That's not me. I might be doing like that, but I am not that one.
We need to talk, you have to figure out where that came. And that just seems extraordinarily mature in the midst of like, I think I would have gotten there the next day. Right. But you get there in the moment, moment. She was amazing.
But again, I think it's just being solid in knowing who I am and like, I never questioned who I was.
So when people call me and I think I've also dealt with that a lot with the, the trauma, which is why I changed my therapist was we just had our first session a couple of weeks ago. And. I started explaining what was going, what my history was. And she's like, that sounds like a super traumatic childhood because I ended up having to be that voice of reason for the adults in my life.
So I was always that person who was like, I don't know what you're seeing. And I was highly observant as a child. And I was in a lot of adult situations. I would, I was an only child until I was nine, 11 years old, almost 11. And my mom used to take me everywhere. So I would be in tons of adult situations.
I've seen people pop off. I've seen people be kind, I've seen people and I would just watch, I would just watch and not really, um, take a lot of it in, but I. I knew the wrong way to handle things. And I saw the wrong way often, and I saw how the wrong way doesn't get you, what you want. And as much as you want to pop off at it, it doesn't get you anywhere.
I mean, the only thing that really gets you is you're angry. They're angry now. They're angry too. Right. And nobody really wants to talk it out. So I just learned very early that, that just isn't the way it works in an actuality.
Right. Well, when you guys, now you guys are like in therapy or in separate, no, you guys eventually got together and started doing therapy.
Yeah. How did that go? I'm curious to hear that.
Oh, it wasn't easy at all. Um, being open and honest with your partner, those deep dark thoughts that you've been thinking, but you haven't expressed. Um, it was very trying because I wanted to make sure that not only, again, I don't like to pop off, so I wanted to make sure that the words that I used.
Wouldn't really hurt. I don't like hurting feelings. Right. And so it was making sure I use the right words because it wasn't so much to say I don't love you, but it's, I love myself in a way that I don't know if you're, you're loving me in the way that I want. And. You know, he's thinking he's doing everything for me because I'm coming off of being a stay-at-home mother.
He's paying all the bills. He's giving me space to kind of, you know, play around with some of the things I want to do. So he's thinking he's doing it great. And I'm like, but I have no love. I don't have any of that passion and affection that I really want. And it's hard to say that, especially to a man because you know, thing of their, uh, sexual prowess
and I think a lot in married men.
Fall into, and that makes sense. We've built up marriage generally. We're expecting the man to be the breadwinner. That's kind of the package we're sold that, you know, at least he's making the money and he's supporting his family and sometimes they think that's all they really need to do. Like I bring in all money.
Yes. Be happy. I did my job. Well, there's a lot more to being married. So that's common. I've, I've heard about that being the situation.
Uh, yeah, so it was, it was a lot, cause it was like, it was a physical intimacy, but it was the kids too. It was, you know, everything would fall on my back. So all of the scheduling, all of the, um, I got to know allergies and make sure the person knows there's, you know, all that stuff.
And I'm like, you get to just kind of roll home and then. If I happen to mention that they need to go, you will take them now, you know, they need to go because it's on the calendar that you see that you have in your phone. But unless I actually say you need to take them. You don't take them. You don't even suggest taking them.
And I said, you know, that was part of it too, because that is somewhat not somewhat. That is very draining, especially when it comes to the sexual intimacy part, because I'm like, I'm just, yeah. You just not into it. So I was like, you are my partner. You are not a babysitter to the kids. You are not a watcher.
You are a partner, which means I need your input. Because at the time when we were trying to do is figure out summer camp and I kept asking him questions and his response was always okay. And I'm like, it's not an answer. I'm looking for yes or no. Is it a good idea? Not okay. And I just kept going back in over and over and over again.
And I was like, I don't know. And so when I'm in therapy and she, she did put it into a different perspective, although I think he was just using it because she said it,
um,
So you must really trust April's decisions when she's doing these things.
And I don't know if that's real good. That's what I'm doing.
I'm trusting April.
That's what it felt like. I don't know. I mean, I've never like did a deep dive into really, that was how he felt, but that's how it felt because I'm like, I don't think, I don't think it was that I think he just didn't want to get involved and he wants to stay on the outside. And the only way to say on the outside is to just let her be and see how she handled, how that turned out.
But let me ask you. Then because you've come on the other side of this and you're talking about it. Would you say that this guy going into your DMS was a good, ultimately, um, a catalyst of good things happening in your marriage?
Yes, I would. I, I mean, like I said, you asked me at the beginning, do, would I advise it?
No, I wouldn't advise it because had it been a different set of people and I'm not just saying me if it wasn't me, if it wasn't him. This whole situation could have blown up and been something very different, but for us, the way we were able to handle it, I think it was a catalyst. I think it was a wake up call.
He needed, it was a wake up call. I needed not just for my marriage, but what I wanted out of life. Like I wanted more out of life. And I don't know if I would've seen that. I don't know if I seen it. If I had seen it five years from now or 10 years from now and would have felt the last decade was like wasted because, you know, I didn't do anything and he didn't push and, you know, whatever, whatever.
So I think it was the catalyst. It was a hard catalyst because we had to work through it because then there was trust issues. Right. Then it became a, so who you talking to? Who you, you know, what you looking at, how you, you know, well,
you told, you told your husband about the situation with the gentleman.
Yeah, I did. And it was more, it wasn't to like rub anything in his face, but I w I had to be honest, I'm like, he makes me feel good. He makes me feel loved. And he makes me feel like there's someone looking at me and not me as a wife or a mother, but just April. Just like, you know, you do when you're 18, when they're just looking at you, not what you can do, not the food you can cook.
The therapist is helping you guys get that back.
Yes. Yes. So we, we actually have the therapist working on it and then I decided to take recently this 28 day rekindle class, that's only for the wives three Kendall. Okay. Uh, the relationship with the husband, because I will say because of not receiving for so long, it's really hard for me to receive the love he is giving.
Um, because it's been so long since I felt it. So I've it, I'm still kind of on guard and part of it's like, well, how long is this going to last is just this gonna last for just a little bit or a long time. So, you know, I, I don't want to be that way. So I signed up to do this. We Kindle, and it's just like a little thing each day you do with your spouse, but it's for the wife and not for the husband.
So it's on the wife to bring it to fruition. So that's going okay. I wish it was going better,
but it's going on. I'm curious. Did, did your husband think because you guys were actively having sex, that you guys were being intimate or did he
yeah. He was like Bez checkbox. We had sex that made her intimate.
Yeah, I think cause guys, I think a lot of times they don't necessarily equate like passion with like, With sex, like sex is all encompassing. It's intimacy and it's passion, but it doesn't, you can have sex without either of those things.
It's a fun boyfriend girl. She didn't mean nothing. It didn't mean anything.
Exactly. I mean, prostitutes, wouldn't be good making their money. If it, if it were a thing about intimacy and passion. You know, and so, but I think guys, um, mistakenly
put the idea of
what we're having sex. So what do you mean? Of course I'm passionate
and I keep paying the bills, you know, I understand. I'm not stepping out.
I'm not staying out late. I'm not doing all these negative things. So therefore everything's positive and it doesn't help that he's an engineer, um, because they have a very analytical mind about things. So we've had to break down like, Kind of tie into some creativity a little bit more, um, and not, not make it so regimented,
even though he's maybe an analytical person.
I think every marriage goes through the need to reinvent itself and to rejuvenate feeling of flirtiness and love because if you're in it long enough and we're trying to be in it for life and it's going to have those dips. Right. And you absolutely have to go with light life happens. So. And then that affects us.
And so if we have to do this, so you're doing it now, I'm going to say, I'm betting years from now. Things kind of go up and down, so you'll have to do it again, but you have the skills and the knowledge will acknowledge it sooner. You'll address it. But I think just life puts us through these. Um, and it's good that you handled the, this, like.
Like you did, because I think it will benefit every, uh, you know, You two in the end.
One of the things that he brought to my attention, because he's an analytical person. And so of course, when we got into trouble, he started reading a bunch of things. And so he said it's pretty universal that long-term couples have a five-year period where they struggle.
And he's like, this is just our five-year period. And I was like, you keep brushing it off. Like that's no big deal. He just said, he's like, well, I know if we can work through this five-year period, I know we'll be better for it on the other end. And we probably won't have any other major trouble after this.
Um, so it's, we'll see. I mean, but that's his attitude of it. He's like, so he takes he's very. Um, he can go with the flow a lot, which I think I need. And that's when you can go with the flow. And so he's just like, yeah, we'll work through it. It's going to take some time, but we'll work through it and we'll get to the other side of it.
I think one of the benefits too, with you guys going through this, I think it adds an element of trust to your relationship that you guys have made it through this and that you're like you're headed on the other side, right? And so then if something else in seven, eight years comes, it becomes a problem.
You guys can trust that there's a process that you can go through and get through this again, that we, that you can physically understand that it's a cycle. And then you guys can get through there too. So I think it's very powerful. What you and your husband have done and actually going through therapy and getting him to really, I mean like I'm like sucked in a little bit.
I
mean, Oh, me too. I see what you're saying. And I think that is a wonderful way to resolve problems and to prove to yourself that you can.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest. Like my husband is very faithful and he's very loving, but sometimes it feels like he's just here because he's supposed to be here and I needed some reassurance that he was here for.
Me because he loved me and not because I am the mother of his children and sometimes that's hard to differentiate. Sometimes it's hard to separate those two thoughts and feelings. And I needed him to try to do the work, to be able to show me that that was it. And then I do, you know, and with that, you know, we were talking and there are times he messes up and things like that.
And I told him one of the things I had to tell him was. As long as we're working on this path that I won't leave. So one of the trust issues that night, um, I had to come because the first few weeks were hard and he's like, I just feel like if I screw up that she's going to leave me and the doctor said, the therapist said, you got to tell him, you're not because he's gonna feel like.
He can't do anything right or wrong because something will set you off and then you're going to go out the door. And I understood that. So I had to say that I'm saying for now, and then if there's, if anything changes that I'll let him know.
That's nice. That was a thing I've learned. I've done a lot and been in a lot of marriage, enrichment, um, workshops and stuff like that.
And they. Tell you not to ever throw the divorce word out there as a, as a bargaining chip, you know, say we're gonna figure it out. I might not like you this moment, but we're going to be married with a figure out how to do it, you know, and this is barring any domestic violence. You all, we're not talking about that that has a whole different, um, uh, way you would handle that.
We were just talking about challenging marriage situations. Um, and so reminding your partner that we're in this together, we're gonna make it through this. We're gonna make it through it yet. I don't want to, but right now I'm here and I'm going to make it work.
Yeah. I don't think you have to want to. That's impossible. Right? You can't watch it every day. Most times, most days. Right. But that every day, if you're just being honest about managing and life,
so have either one of you guys gone through anything like that. No one has, have you ever thrown out the D word to your spouses, your significant others?
Have you ?
i have. She's laughing. I guess I told her,
it makes you to say that you did that. I'm going to have that, that you said it as though you might've thought
it. I think, I think if you like Jimmy and I have been married for what? 20 this'll be 24 years. Okay. I'm looking at you because you're
holding well before, as I've been going on
together for almost 30.
And so,
um, if
I think if you don't feel stretched enough to even think about it at one point, you probably are doing something right in your marriage. I mean, like. We we've had our ups and downs. And, um, and particularly at one point it was not very rosy around here was not very good. And, um, we came through it, we're working through it and we're in a much better place now, but it was a process we did not end up going through therapy.
Although I think that
it would have. So
we, I have a therapy story, but that's not for today cause we don't have the time for it. But, um, uh, but I have, and it's nice. It's not a fun, it's not a fun place to be in to feel like the person that you, you have committed to that you, um, that you actually genuinely love.
But are not sure if you can actually go another day dealing with the BS that you're dealing with in that moment. Yes.
And that, I mean, really that's what it was. It was like, I mean, some of it was my fault. Cause you asked in the beginning about, you know, how changing my behavior. Well, part of me changing my behavior was changing my standards as well.
So like not allowing him to get away with. Not participating, you know, not being a part of these discussions about, uh, what the kids are doing and how, you know, one of the issues we were having was the girls cleaning, right? My seven and nine year old. Well, at the time, my youngest would basically cry long enough till dad got home because she knew when dad got home, she wouldn't have to clean because dad would clean it for her, which meant every time I asked her to clean the room, she was like, I can't.
I'm I'm the baby, basically. I'm the baby. I can't clean. So it was like this, this fight that I was having with other people in the house, because he wasn't pulling his weight. He was trying to be the nice guy. He was coming home and just being like, Oh my baby, my little girl, my little, you know, and I'm like, that's great, but I need you to.
Do different.
Well, and that's another thing we don't talk about. We won't get onto it today, but kids and the way they manipulate, um, the parents can really cause an issue in the marriage too. I, and that's a perfect example, but, um,
Well, we'll, we'll, we'll pin that as a possible
factly. I need to write that down on the topics list, but April, April, April, man, I cannot thank you enough for today and your honesty and your brutal honesty.
I think. People need to be more brutally honest with their friends
with themselves. We don't talk about,
we don't talk about these things. And this is one of the reasons why we wanted to have
you on is your, your ability
to really explain. Well, you guys went through in a very real way. And what your experience was, I think is actually a much more common experience in terms of what happens to, you know, get to that point where you're not sure if you're going to stay in love this person, or if you're just going to get up and go right.
I think that, you know, someone sliding in your DMS, I think that's a very common thing for you to walk us through. That is invaluable. So I really want to thank you for that. I mean that from the bottom of my heart now, before we go, I do want to. Um, give you an opportunity to just tell people where they can find you.
And if you have anything that's coming up that you would want
to, well, if you want to find the other side of 40 it's other side 40, the number 40, I'm not sure. I'm not going to say what it's not. It's just O T H E R S I D E four zero everywhere. Um, I have a Facebook group and if you want to find me personally, it's the April Noel, T H E a P R I L N O E.
L L E and that's me my own personal, like, you know, kind of what I'm doing, but if you want to follow like the podcasts and all that other stuff, go to other side 40 and, um, I'm actually coaching women after starting this podcast, I've had women approach me about how to do it. So I've started working with women and teaching them how to do, um, just make those changes and talk to them.
Talk to the people around them to help them make those changes as well. So I do have a coaching program. So reach out to me if you want the links for that as well.
Wow. That is so I did not know you had done that. That was that
with women for the last couple of months? Well, the last like three to four months, but I made it like official this month, this January, I had to kind of sit with it in December to see if I wanted to go into it.
You know, because it's, it's a career transition in some ways. So I needed to know if that was something I wanted to do and I needed to get some education on making sure I do it right, because I really want the person to grow on the other side of it. I really want them to be able to. Stay on in I'm living my best life on the other end of it.
I think that's wonderful because I think that's what we're all about too. I think that was one of the, um, things that we wanted to get across to our listeners is that there's so much more to us than being just the wife, mother caretaker. And, um, and that. We have an opportunity. As long as we have a breath, we have an opportunity to improve our own life and our way of living.
And so I really do appreciate that and I wish you the very best success.
Thank you.
You're welcome. So, listeners, we hope that you got the very best out of April Grant because I mean, it's very relatable story, so we hope they got the best out of that. So until next time, peace and blessing. Thanks for joining us today.
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That's girl with three R's. If you want to participate in our segment. Ask your girlfriends, email talk2us@girrrlpodcast.Com
that's girl with three R's. So until next time, peace and blessings.